Is JPatch missing the goal? What is the goal?

General discussion about JPatch

Postby sascha » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:25 pm

sascha wrote:David Cuny wrote an excellent lip-syncing tool called Yolo - its user interface is very similar to Lost Marble's Papagayo (which recently has been released under an open source license).
Yolo is written in Java and will eventually be integrated into JPatch.

nine wrote:PAPAGAYO is it implemented? I did not get any answer.

Nine, I'd appreciate if you'd read the answer you get before posting lenghty messages. But we've had that discussion before too :roll:

I am going to have to defend Disney here.

Thanks animohn, I fully agree.
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Postby Guest » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:26 pm

Sure JPatch is on the right track - You are doing something really good.
But if you want to get it going faster you have to have a lot of helping hands/brains/hearts/people involved. And you have to have good examples to show.

Disney - it is about sound - music - voice - lip sync - storytelling - that is what attracts people and what can get creative minds going.
Disney without this it is nearly nothing - it is Animation Master... old boys talking about technical matters - not doing the thing - not telling stories - no Disney...
Why not a speaking parrot with a bit animation in JPatch?
And people will laugh and cry listening to the stories told.
And people will understand that JPatch can tell a story.
JPatch is fun to learn and they will contribute..
Image


Animation is about storytelling - emotions - getting people laughing and crying - you can really animate simple just having a monologue/dialogue.

I am hoping on you - hoping on lip/beak sync.... coming soon in JPatch.
JPatch is free!!! It is what the kids and schools need... something free to experiment with... everyone has a story to tell... let´s make the world laugh and cry... not letting the globalist making this world to an Armaghedon...

Let us joke a bit with the stupid guys! It is not their world! It is ours!
http://media.putfile.com/busama
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Postby dcuny » Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:11 pm

animohn wrote:I am going to have to defend Disney here. The reason that the animated film industry is even around is because of what Disney did and that was done through quality in art and story.
I completely agree. I wasn't complaining about Disney animation; it's great stuff. (Well, it was until Disney shuttered the Paris, Florida and Burbank studios). I've got the Disney films as well as The Illusion of Life, and The Art of Walt Disney.

The classic Disney stuff is great, and the irony is that Disney still can how to tell a great story. For example, Pixar credits Disney for rescuing Toy Story when it became clear that the plot needed a major overhaul. Personally, I loved The Emperor's New Groove.

I was referring to films like Brother Bear, which is beautiful to look at, but instead of telling a story, bludgeons you with it. A couple days ago someone was bemoaning the same thing about Treasure Planet, where all the elements are fantastic - except for the plot. I'll buy Chicken Little when it comes out in March, but the reviews I've seen on it have the same exact complaints.

Disney - it is about sound - music - voice - lip sync - storytelling - that is what attracts people and what can get creative minds going.
Odd, when I think of Disney, I think of great animation. ;)

I think there's something magical about animation. Ray Harryhausen describes a "dreamlike quality" that stop motion has. While the goal of most computer effects animation is to be seamless, I think that something's lost in the process.
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Postby nine » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:05 pm

I Googled on Yolo and found this:
[zt]经典文献-图形、图像、影音相关软件(喜创作的进)[白果社区 ...
2005年09月16日,合并免费的Lip Sync软件,添加Yolo。 ... 上面两个软件的作者都是David
Cuny,他同时还是跨平台BASIC解释器Wxbasic的作者(查看更多的BASIC语言解释/ ...
bbs.dufe.cn/dispbbs.asp?boardID=12&ID=141931&page=1 - 123k - 27 jan 2006 -

Well - I do not really understand chinese. Perhaps some information somewhere else.
Yolo is written in Java and will eventually be integrated into JPatch.

BUT WHEN?

You are talking about Disney - you believe you can do some Disney stuff?
WHEN?
I do not believe JPatch can do the Disney stuff - Animation Master cannot... MACHIMA? No! - but coming...

Better do some YOLO with a simple character so the kids can start telling THEIR stories joking with the bad guys. I want to see and hear a YOLO parrot... soon.... joking with Busama... perhaps singing... some AntiBusamaSong... well it will be BETTER than Disney... because Disney is owned by the bankers.... and will never make such a melody....

And what about bitmap layers in JPatch as easy scenary?
Why model trees? Better a photo! So much faster... It is not about realism...
It is about hypnosis.... hypnosis into some world of Snowwhite and some dwarfs... talking... with each other... SINGING

I found Yolo here:
http://yolo.sourceforge.net/
but to integrate it into JPatch will it take long? some weeks? months?

Image
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Postby Torf » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:39 pm

Nine, what exactly is your problem? You've been telling us your view over and over again, without really showing any reaction on the answers you got. :roll:

Fact: You have a different opinion about what JPatch should be as Sascha and David have.

So what? They told you that they don't share your view, and I must say that I agree with them, although that is not the point. The point is: If you don't like the way JPatch is developing, you have two options:
  • Don't use it. You have told us about several apps you like - why don't you just use them? They are tailored to the task you want to fullfil, so go with them.
  • Modify JPatch to make it do the things you want it to do. JPatch is open source - if you don't like it, change it. That easy. Perhaps your changes will not be integrated into JPatch, but you can always start a new project, based upon JPatch. By the way: Not being able to program is not an excuse :wink:
Sorry that I'm so harsh, but I must say that this discussion is getting on my nerves. :?
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Postby Guest » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:51 pm

We DO have the same opinion about JPatch I believe. I have told them I appreciate their work. I have been told there is YOLO - but then will it integrate with JPatch. Just a question! WHEN?

We have been talking about Disney. Disney without lipsynced characters is I belive to everyones opinon - not very useful. What is your opinion? Disney with dumb characters? No I do not think so...

Have you done any animation in JPatch - upload them!
The Impostor is lip synced but I do not believe it is done with Yolo.
Have you done any lipsyncing yourself - have you understood how time consuming it is?

If you want to discuss you better behave. Torf!
What do you like Disney yourself? Or you have some other favorite?
And MACHIMA what do you think about that?
:D
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Postby Torf » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:07 pm

Anonymous wrote:If you want to discuss you better behave. Torf!
I'm not? How about you? Please log in to post comments; please only upload images if they are needed for illustration; please take the time to structure your posts, they are hard to follow. Thanks.

Now to JPatch. I don't know if you have noticed it, but JPatch's major version number is 0. Right, it's version 0.5.2 now. A version number below 1 simply means "not ready for end-consumers, yet". Features are missing, bugs have to be found and fixed, etc. Given that Sascha is doing almost everything on his own (Aside from David preparing Inyo and Yolo), it's already awesome how much there is in JPatch today.

I have been told there is YOLO - but then will it integrate with JPatch. Just a question! WHEN?

Did you ever develop a serious application? I, for myself, haven't (at least nothing in the scale of JPatch), but I do know that software development is not like driving a car along an empty road. You simply do not know where you will turn up and when (This may be different for industrial software development). If you read what Sascha says about developing JPatch you'll notice that it's a lot different from what he thought it to be. JPatch development is open for new ideas, open to try stuff. There's no timeline in it. Yolo will most probably be integrated at some point. When? Nobody knows. Same goes for all the other features you request.

If that's not enough for you, do it yourself. You're even invited to so, that's the idea of open source.
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Postby squirrelhavoc » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:14 pm

I thought I would jump in and give my psychological advice.

If a trouble maker isn't getting the attention he is seeking, he will stop. Hence, if this thread dies, so will the annoying conversation. Although, here I am keeping alive, just thought i would share something I learned :)
Squirrel Havoc

We live as we think, very very slowly....
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Postby Torf » Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:26 pm

squirrelhavoc wrote:I thought I would jump in and give my psychological advice.
Yeah, I know that. Been reading newsgroups and forums for what seems half of my life :D

I just didn't think of Nine as one of those trolls (are they called that way in English, too?). He has contributed to JPatch (his tutorials, for example). Normally I would've just shut up ("Don't feed the troll!"), but this board has such a nice atmosphere, I don't want it to end up like all of the others...
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Postby nine » Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:49 pm

Torf - I put you some questions about your preferences and about your work and about MACHIMA! Why not answer my questions trying to have a nice disussion?

I believe Sascha and dcuny can answer for themselves! Your answers do not tell anything - because you do not know.

You can have a look on the forum and as far as I can understand lipsync will be implemented in version 0.8. But when?

I believe it is better to implement as soon as possible - Yolo is working - so why not use it?

Without lipsync you cannot have a monologue/dialogue and that is the thing if you want to communicate or you prefer pantomime? I saw your character saying hi - but no sound - wouldn´t it be nice if your character could say hi with Yolo lipsync?

And not only Hi! - have you seen a Disney movie - all the characters just saying Hi? No - the characters have to be able to speak with lipsync if you will be able to tell a story. Have you seen the movies produced with Animation Master - very few of them are telling a lip-synced story. Why? Because it is hard to lip-sync in AM - most of them does not bother to do it.

Have you seen any MACHIMA movies? They have a millieu - camera work - characters you never see in Animation Master.

If you will contribute to JPatch you better think a bit!
And if you want JPatch to have a lot of new users - suggest something - let us hear your suggestions! Perhaps you will suggest lip sync with Yolo?
:!: :?: :idea: :arrow:
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Postby nine » Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:57 pm

Have a look att Hash lip sync contest:
http://hash.com/animationcontest/Q0303/Q0303winners.asp

Tell me what you think!
Is this the way you expect JPatch to behave?
Try to lip sync with some 3D program and show me your result...
Make a lip sync with JPatch - show it to me!
:lol:

Have a look and LISTEN at this one:
http://amfilms.hash.com/search/Entry.php?entry=1051

Your characters have to be able to talk with lip sync if you will be able to tell a story!
Or perhaps you have some other goal?

I hope to see Yolo soon in JPatch and JPatch will have so many more users!!!
Submitters of content!
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Postby pndragon » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:27 am

At this point I am beginning to believe that nine is not a real person but a 'bot of some kind. The single mindedness of purpose and lack of response to questions bears all of the earmarks.

If this is not true then I apologize.

--- Jim
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Postby dcuny » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:43 am

nine, stop trolling, and stop insulting people.

As for Yolo, you already answered your own question - Sascha has to write support code for the timeline. As it says in the threads, there's no point in me doing anything before that, because I'd just have to throw away whatever I did. Besides, Yolo exports to Magpie format, which JPatch can read, so there's nothing preventing you from using it now.

As for the name, yes, Yolo is named after Yolo county. Inyo is named after Inyo county. They're counties in California, which is where I live. No need to post a picture.

As Torf already said - JPatch is still a beta program. That Sascha was able to do any animation with it - and win an award for it - doesn't mean that JPatch is ready to use. It means that Sascha is very, very clever.

Sheesh. :roll:
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