New IRTC animation topic (Jan 2006): Inventions

General discussion about JPatch

Postby dcuny » Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:05 am

I think it would be better to submit something (however short) than nothing. How about this:
  • Opening title: "Down Under"
  • Digger drills up from the ground into the scene.
  • Door opens, man jumps out, looks around. His expression becomes shocked...
  • ... The camera pulls back, reveals kangaroo(s) standing around...
  • ...The camera POV flips over, and man "falls" up into the sky.
  • End Credits
  • Optional tag: Kangaroo looks up at the sky, waving.
If you've got time, you could animate the title credit letters (like the JPatch logo) so that they "jump" into the scene like kangaroos.

If you can't get the animator done in time, you might be able to fall back to the old Animator module.

Since rendering time is an issue, hack JPatch to use the builtin zbuffer renderer. Use the default three point lighting, and set the background color to the color of the sky. Heck, you could probably code that in the time it would take Inyo to render a couple of seconds of animation! ;)
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Postby sascha » Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:41 am

I tend to disagree. The shortened script has almost nothing to do with the topic, and "hacking" JPatch just to finish an IRTC entry seems counterproductive to me.

My idea is to finish the animation with the original script within the next two weeks (but not submit it to the IRTC because the deadline is this sunday).

This way I can add the missing features to JPatch unhurriedly, and also see how they work by making a real animation with it.
I tried to animate the shot where he's basically just falling down (the camera fixed on him, with the clouds in the background). All the man has to do is to stuggle for some time, and then "fly" to the camera and grab it.
But it turend out to be much more difficult to animate than I thought. Although I've hacked in a copy and paste tool for poses, that's not enough - what's needed is a tool that can copy and paste parts of a pose (e.g. just the legs, or just the arms). This can be done most effeciently within the collapsed timeline you've suggested. You could select a few keys, click on "copy", go to another frame and click "paste" to insert them.

Another thing that's much needed is a tool to retime the animation - eihter by moving a block a few frames back- or forward, or by changing the speed of a block. Again, both could be done most easily with a timeline editor.

Finally there must be FK handles in the viewports to modify the pose - working with the sliders is still too cumbersome.

With the FK handles and the timeline tools animating a shot like the one I described above should be a matter of maybe an hour or two. Without them, it's a real pain - and if the timing looks wrong, you've got to start over again :?


Since I really like the script I don't want to drop it. I think it's in the best interest of JPatch if I add the missing tools cleanly, and test them by making this animation. I can then still post it to the POV newsgroups or submit it to some other animation site - and of course put it on the JPatch homepage and include the source-files with the next JPatch release.

I hope that's not too disappointing :)
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Postby Torf » Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:53 pm

sascha wrote:I think it's in the best interest of JPatch if I add the missing tools cleanly, and test them by making this animation.
[...]
I hope that's not too disappointing :)

I seriously doubt anyone here would prefer an animation over some new tools in JPatch, especially if they're implemented cleanly and already tested :)
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Postby dcuny » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:06 pm

I'm not really disappointed - I suspected this might be coming when certain features were missing from the preview release. It was just a proposal in case you wanted to try to get it in under the deadline.

I actually had a couple of ulterior motives :P :
  • I really do want the zbuffer renderer added to JPatch. You've already said you'd be adding it, so I should just wait until you've got a chance to do it properly, instead of constantly bugging you about it.
  • Submitting to the IRTC can help generate good publicity for JPatch. Then again, a rushed, last minute crappy submission probably wouldn't get the kind of publicity you're after.
  • I'm a little worried that with the low turnout the IRTC contest has been having with the animation, they might decide to drop the contest. I doubt that'll happen, since it'll probably take more effort to stop it than it will to let it continue.
I'm looking forward to your progress with JPatch and the animation, whenever you can get it done!
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Postby dcuny » Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:35 am

I'm reminded of the end of the Rankin/Bass version of "Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer", where the misfit toys are shivering in the dark around a campfire:
    Charlie in the Box: Well, another IRTC competition has come and gone, and there's no animation for JPatch.
    Dolly: But Sascha promised he'd submit one this time around!
    Charlie in the Box: I guess there's nothing to do but wait until the next round...
Hehehehehe. ;)
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Postby dcuny » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:25 am

It looks like the IRTC submissions are in:
  • Egg Cracker is an egg cracking invention, just like the title implies. I would have sworn that the author used POV-Ray, but it was done in Lightwave. Shows what I know.
  • Exploring Mars was a bit about a humaniod robot dropped off on Mars. It was nice to see someone try to do character animation with POV-Ray, so they get bonus points from me. It took a couple views until I understood the message at the end. Note to self: avoid spinning pans of scenery, they just make people dizzy.
  • Gears was an animation of gears, with a text-to-speech voiceover. I think "The Imposter" was the only animation I've seen that uses computer generated speech well.
  • Nuggetize is a device for creating chicken nuggets. I correctly guessed it was done in Art of Illusion based on the very pretty global illumination, as well as the narrator's voice (from the prior month's "Is Juggling a Sport" submission). A bit long for my taste, but it was nice to see an AoI submission. Animating the spring must have been a real pain.
  • Phase Two was (as usual) another nicely done Rusty animation. I thought it was pretty funny.
Any word what the next topic is going to be?
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Postby nine » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:16 pm

dcuny wrote:Which is, of course, the whole point.
[*]Develop some sympathy (or antipathy) for them;
[*]Present a problem the need to solve;
[*]Create a "eureka" moment for them;
[*]Have them create an invention;
[*]Solve (or attempt to solve) the problem with the invention.[/list]The "invention" doesn't even have to be something you traditionally consider an


http://media.putfile.com/busama
Well perhaps not all of the points... but some...

Snowwhite is a good example of storytelling... it is about hate and love and death and birth from the dead.

Telling a story - animated - it is a lot of work - Disney an industry!
Busama - I believe is simple story telling - you do not need thousands of employes to do it - you can do it yourself.
My suggestion for JPatch!
Being able to use a bitmap as a background - and switching the background bitmaps - this is really fast animating - just setting the scenary easy - no modelling - just a bitmap. To model everything and you will get stuck in modelling - not having time to tell the story. Implementing a bitmap backround layer in JPatch it is up to Sascha - he has his timetable - I respect his work and timetable - this is only a suggestion!

Modeling a caricature like Busama - you have to be really skilled - and it will take you some hours. Better use a bitmap sometimes. JPatch needs UV-mapping perhaps it is coming someday - but UV-mapping on a flat surface is perhaps not so hard to implement - Sascha knows best!

And I have said it before - lipsync - dcuny and Sascha know best.
Lipsync and you can tell stories - the silence coming alive. Telling The Busama Story or some SnowWhite Story or your own story.

I believe 3D animation - story telling - is about those points. And it is about to be/become an artist - having listened to the silence - having meditated a bit.
But it is also about time - having got the time to do it - being able to do it easy - not using models all the time - using bitmaps.
This AM film is perhaps good - what do you think - how many hours have they spent on it - they are using bitmaps:
http://amfilms.hash.com/search/entry.php?entry=689

It could be the beginning of some story telling - a bit of lipsync needed and the story can begin to develop... so my suggestions - bitmap backgrounds in JPatch!
:idea:
PS
Reading your discussions my impression is you are in a boy´s world.
It is about machines - inventions - death - bragging.
I believe there is a girl´s world too!!!
We as boys can learn something from. Snowwhite is about both the sexes worlds - and making it aristic - it is about the no world - all the worlds - you have to study Buddha a bit and meditating yourself to get the point.

About girls worlds - why not have a look at the animations of Nancy Gormezano at AM film - she is an artist! I believe. Have a look:
THE WORLD OF NANCY GORMEZANO
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Postby squirrelhavoc » Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:24 pm

nine wrote:I believe there is a girl´s world too!!!


And what exactly do you think is a "girls world"? Cooking and sewing? If you really listened to the words of Buddha, you would realize this is a human's world, shared equally by all people, regardless of how people like to catagorize them (male and female, black and while, german and japanese, and so on). We are all the same, sharing the same common interests, with the only difference being of incorrect up-bringing and cultural stereotypes. Try reading the Buddhist works again
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http://100second.ltc.org/

Postby Guest » Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:33 am

As I mentioned earlier, I'd like to finish the animation that was originally planned for the last IRTC round - we have a nice and funny script, and many models are already finished.
I could try to submit it there: http://100second.ltc.org/
The 1st May deadline sounds reasonable too.
What do you think?
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Postby Guest » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:01 pm

Looking at the site, it sounds like a great idea. May 1st 2006 seems like plenty of time to finish. And thanks for the link "Guest" ... => ... the 100 Sec Film Fest looks interesting. I have many qualifying films (</= 100 sec); I may put one (or a few) in for submission. Anyway, let us know what you do.

Rob
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Postby rjh » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:03 pm

hey ... it "Guested" me too!!!

=>

Rob
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Postby sascha » Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:36 pm

:) Yes, the first "guest" was me.

Btw, Rob, I've uploaded another test-version a few days ago - it can be downloaded from http://jpatch.com/temp/jpatch_20060206.jar

Loading/saving animations is supported (but experimental, so be careful). The biggest problem is that you can't render :?
But I'm working on it...
There's a rudimentary timeline editor as well - but it lacks block-movement, retiming and cut/copy/paste options.

But since you're one of the few people who actually used the old animator I'd appreciate your feedback on the new features
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Postby rjh » Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:55 pm

Hey Sascha,

Btw, Rob, I've uploaded another test-version a few days ago


Yes ... i have that one and am currently checking it out. I have rigged a cat character w/ 50+ bones and am currently using that to test with. I'll have some feedback soon, but so far it looks good.

Rob
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Postby squirrelhavoc » Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:18 am

rjh wrote:I have rigged a cat character w/ 50+ bones and am currently using that to test with.


Wow, that sounds complex, can I see a screen grab of it in Jpatch, and a render pretty please? :)
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Postby rjh » Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:23 pm

Here you go. It took me about 3 hours to model, 2 hours to rig, and 2 hours to assign points to bones.
Attachments
cat021606.JPG
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